Posts by Christ Alone

62

Hello??

by franticfran in

jw
friends

i have just joined this website and just wanted to say hello to anyone out there.

i am so nervous,after thirty odd years in the "truth" i feel as though my husband and i have just walked into a room full of smiling strangers and we are just standing here hoping to god someone will come up and speak to us.

scared and excited and hoping to wake up one morning and not wonder what we do now???

Christ Alone

Just don't worry, be patient, you don't need to figure it out all at once, these things take time, don't just jump into another religion because you feel you must.

Great advice, Lisa Rose! Fran, you should take a much needed break and figure out what makes sense to you and how you can even begin to recover. Many of us have found that this organization was abusive to us in ways we didn't even know or couldn't even comprehend. It took some of us a long time to realize what they actually did to us and our thought process. The way we shame ourselves. Guilt ourselves. Stop ourselves from thinking things through completely.

You dont' need to jump into any other religion. Especially right now. Take your time. Read your bible alone. Jesus did not require meeting attendance. All He asked was that we go directly to Him and He would refresh us!Take the offer of all of us to be there for you. Discuss everything you're feeling with someone you trust. Get it all out. Take a vacation! At least a vacation from WT mind control! It'll be great for you. You'll eventually find that freedom is a beautiful thing! Freedom of thought. Freedom to disagree. Freedom to choose. Breath!

50

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? in

after spending a lifetime in it, no one is as fed up with the wt as i am.

[my golf game would have been a hell of alot better if i was'nt banging my head against the wall on saturdays!

lol ] this forum has taught me alot more than i thought to confirm my suspicions.

Christ Alone

That's cool, problem addict. I get your view. Obviously since I once held the same view! :-)

As far as cofty's article, those are scriptures that should carry the same idea regardless of translation. The point he was making was not necessarily that the early Christians believed Jesus was deity (which I believe they did). But he was showing that the focus was ALL on Jesus and not on the fictional name "Jehovah". That name occurs a grand total of 0 times in the New Testament. No, all focus was on Jesus. People were blessed in Jesus name. Jesus was worshiped. Jesus name was greater than all other names. It was in Jesus name that we were to be baptized. Jesus was all in all. Everything. I have a challenge for you, problem addict. It'll be an interesting one, I think. Go back to cofty's article, and substitute the name "Jesus" for "Jehovah". I guarantee you will have a clear picture of JW "theology". They substituted Jesus every time that they could. And you will see this if you substitute the name in ever scripture cofty quoted.

For myself, I do not hold to what any specific definition of "Trinity". Many times when you try to define God, it is insufficient. I've also found that most JWs do not know what the Trinity actually teaches. Many think that the Trinity teaches that Jesus and the Father are the same. The same person. So they ask, "Well Jesus prayed to the Father. Did He pray to Himself?" This shows that they do not understand the scriptures. The Trinity merely says that Jesus is called "God" in the Bible. The Holy Spirit too is called "God" in the Bible. They are 3 very separate unique persons. However, when referring to "God", you are referring to 1 of 3 people. The Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Or you are referring to all collectively.

The Bible says that there is only ONE God. This we accept. Then when the Bible calls the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit "God", we are left with only one conclusion. In the nature of ONE God, there are 3 people. Just as in the nature of Angel, there are many people. In the nature of MAN, there are many people. But God is unique in that He is united in substance. Jesus Christ is divine. He is eternal. He made all things that have been made. Not all OTHER things, which would be the case if Jesus Himself were created. No, he created ALL THINGS. Nothing that was made was made without Jesus Christ. Nothing.

This I have accepted. But I understand that many others have a hard time with this understanding and reject it. I don't force it. It's just something that I've concluded based on my study alone. Not outside materials. Not outside churches. Just a reading of the NT.

50

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? in

after spending a lifetime in it, no one is as fed up with the wt as i am.

[my golf game would have been a hell of alot better if i was'nt banging my head against the wall on saturdays!

lol ] this forum has taught me alot more than i thought to confirm my suspicions.

Christ Alone

Thanks erbie. I've found that freedom in Christ is so different from what we knew as JWs. That's one thing I LOVE about Ray's book, "In Search of Christian Freedom." I hope everyone that leaves reads it. If you would like a PDF copy, PM me and I will send it. Since I believe it is out of print, I don't think it would be unethical to send it.

That is one thing I love about Galatians. We are no longer under law. Not just the Mosaic law, but ANY law. We now have the law of love. By God's grace we are able to investigate, choose for ourselves, and live in true freedom. Freedom from sin. Freedom from works. Freedom from judgement.

50

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? in

after spending a lifetime in it, no one is as fed up with the wt as i am.

[my golf game would have been a hell of alot better if i was'nt banging my head against the wall on saturdays!

lol ] this forum has taught me alot more than i thought to confirm my suspicions.

Christ Alone

Let's not go overboard here. The JWs do have correct doctrine.

I understand your position, Rattigan. Many (if not most) do not leave the organization because of doctrinal matters. But when you examine it all, you have to come to some certain conclusions. Is this God's organization? Are the GB the faithful slave spoken of in Matthew 24:45? If they aren't, who are they? Are they false prophets? What did they prophecy? Can they pass the test of a prophet given at Deut 18:20-22? If they are false prophets, what else could they be wrong on? If they are false prophets, should we not reexamine everything they've said to make sure of all things? (1Thess 5:21)

You see, this is a journey of reexamination. You may end up believing in a paradise earth, two classes of Christians, Jesus being Michael the archangel, God having a single organization, soul sleep, etc. Or...you may not. The fantastic thing is that you can reexamine these teachings and find out if they are really so, according to the Bible. No more fear.

More often than not, you may find that many of these doctrines are not correct. Some are based on the mistranslation of the NWT, which was "translated" by men that did not know Hebrew or Greek. Getting a different translation (almost ANY other translation is better) is vital. And be willing to follow truth. Don't approach it with the view "Well...most of the JW doctrines are correct." No, approach it with as little bias as you can muster. Don't worry if you find that many of these doctrines were false.

It's amazing what happens when you read the Bible by itself, and are not blasted with WT comments like "The false religious teaching of...." or "This is a pagan teaching..." So many things that JWs reject are very clearly taught in the Bible. I'm not going to comment further on that. I just want to encourage you to get into your bible deeply and reexamine everything.

62

Hello??

by franticfran in

jw
friends

i have just joined this website and just wanted to say hello to anyone out there.

i am so nervous,after thirty odd years in the "truth" i feel as though my husband and i have just walked into a room full of smiling strangers and we are just standing here hoping to god someone will come up and speak to us.

scared and excited and hoping to wake up one morning and not wonder what we do now???

Christ Alone

Fran,

You are not alone! We have felt so much of what you are feeling! There is a great number that had the courage to stand up for what was right and leave the WT organization behind.

Something that may help you is to hear from others that left. Why did they leave? What did they find afterwards? How are they not alone now? There are hundreds of testimonies that you can listen to, and the faith of those that had the courage to leave is awesome! Take a look here, and let us know what you think!

http://www.towertotruth.net/audio.htm

http://mmoutreach.org/audio_jw.htm

http://www.jwinfoline.com/Page/audio.htm

This site also has some great experiences and resources for you. http://4jehovah.org/ex-jehovah-s-witness-stories/

PLEASE, don't feel alone. We've all been through it. We are not a group of angry, bitter people here. Some are still very hurt and sensitive, but we are here for you. You can talk, disagree with us, express yourself, and all of this without fear of being disfellowshiped! Isn't it great! And we'll all still love you anyway. I am a Christian, but some of my favorite people here are atheists. And I think some of them even like me too! It's great to be free of judgement and able to love people no matter what conclusions they've come to.

Anyway, WELCOME!!!

50

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? in

after spending a lifetime in it, no one is as fed up with the wt as i am.

[my golf game would have been a hell of alot better if i was'nt banging my head against the wall on saturdays!

lol ] this forum has taught me alot more than i thought to confirm my suspicions.

Christ Alone

Oh, one other thing. This thread below was FANTASTIC. Cofty was a JW, and then became a Christian before reexamining his views and following a different path towards non belief. But while a Christian he wrote one of the most thorough comparisons to the early Christians view of Jesus vs the WT view that I've ever seen. Just using scriptures, you can see the amazing contrast. And it can be seen even if one does reject the Bible. Atheist or Christian or anything else, it is beyond obvious that the WT view of Jesus does not match the early Christian's view in any way. Here is the link to that WONDERFUL article:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243099/1/Jehovahs-Witnesses-View-of-Jesus-Compared-to-the-Early-Church

50

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

by nowwhat? in

after spending a lifetime in it, no one is as fed up with the wt as i am.

[my golf game would have been a hell of alot better if i was'nt banging my head against the wall on saturdays!

lol ] this forum has taught me alot more than i thought to confirm my suspicions.

Christ Alone

Now what, like the other posters, I've been there too! I remember telling my friends while I was a JW, "If we don't have the truth, no one does." Alot leave the Watchtower, and always keep that view.

Now that I'm gone, I'm finding that there is a whole lot more truth outside the WT than we thought.

What I recommend is this: Start over. And I mean ALL OVER. Decide not to know anything. (1Cor 2:2) Acknowledge that this was not "the truth". They have developed many doctrines over the years that are not biblical.

Jesus said to watch out for false prophets. They dress in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (Matt 7:15). Think of what that means in regards to the Watchtower. Most of us have seen that they are false prophets. They have falsly prophesied not once, or twice, or even three times. But MANY MANY times. So how are they dressed in sheeps clothing?

First, they make it seem like all their doctrine and prophecy are based on scripture. They are not making it up themselves. It is the SCRIPTURES that indicate these things. See the wool? It's not men. It's God. If it was obvious that MEN were making these doctrines up, we would see the wolf right away. And this isn't just apparent in prophecy. It is true in their doctrines of Jesus (degrading him to an angel), their doctrines on death and the soul, their doctrines on the divine name, etc.

Second, they look like sheep! They sound like sheep! They seem to show love all over the world. They seem to preach God's Kingdom. They seem to be thoroughly dedicated to God. But that is merely the wool. They are false prophets that have decieved millions, spiritually abused millions, and lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

The best advice I can give you is to start over again. Read the NT alone. Pick a translation other than the NWT (not that it is even a translation). Take some time to yourself, and read through it. See who the early Christians thought the person of Jesus was. See who they thought the Holy Spirit was. A person? A power? See what and who we are to focus on. Take your time. Don't worry what other people think. Just pray for the Holy Spirit to teach you. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would be there to guide you into ALL truth. John 16:13 says: " But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

If you believe that, and are open to follow truth wherever it leads, you will be fine. That is the key. Follow truth. Even if it leads you into areas that you are scared of, or challenges doctrines that you've always loved. As you read through the NT, pay close attention to Romans and Galatians. Those two books damage the WT positon greatly. Reading them without WT or even outside Christian materials will show you a stark contrast to what the WT teaches. Read and ponder of John 1. Read Romans 8 and see how different this is from WT "theology". Read Galatians and ponder over the freedom we have in Christ and how we no longer have to follow rules, requirements, works, etc. It is all about grace. And we obey, not because of enforcement of rules or fear of punishment, but because of intense love for God.

As has been brought out, it is not "where am I to go". It is "Who else is there to go to?" Jesus is the only way, truth, and life. The ONLY way. We will not find salvation in any other. Nor will we find salvation by taking refuge in a church or organization and dedicating ourselves to them. However, we CAN find great support and freedom in being able to worship with others. And knowing that they TOO are Christians. There are Christians in MANY churches. And there are non denominational churches that will accept you, even if you reject Trinity, Hell, etc... There is not an enforcement of belief as there was in the WT. You can feel free to disagree with the pastor who is speaking. You can tell him to his face! You can have lively conversations about it. And...NOT BE DF'D!!!

I hope this helped. Remember that this is a long journey. Don't tie yourself down. You are already doing good in saying "I'm not ready". Keep that. Only do what you are ready for. Take your time. Examine everything. Why you believe what you believe. What you believe. And be willing to follow truth. Truth has nothing to hide. Only error hides from inquiry.

30

God and the Super Bowl

by Christ Alone in

did anyone notice the frequency that god was mentioned during the super bowl?

i was impressed.

with the rampant atheism here, sometimes it's easy to forget that belief is still very strong.

Christ Alone

Sounds like a crappy sort of freedom, cofty. I'm sorry...just being honest and non pc here.

I'm sorry if you thought I was questioning yours (or any other persons) love for life. I wasn't. I was just saying that I personally love life and love that it will not end. I've proven God to myself numerous times using different arguments and even going so far as to SPECIFICALLY try to instill doubts about God into my head. I'm not afraid of doubts anymore. Yet, I cannot deny what I've learned. And I am 100% sure that God is real and that it would take more faith for me to be an atheist than to be a believer.

And like I said, it's a perspective thing. I find the unsupportable idea that something came from nothing an incredible delusion. You think I'm delusional because I have seen my life changed and shaped, not because of myself, but outside of myself. I think you are delusional because you believe that life came from non life and matter came from non matter. That gap will never be bridged.

I suppose I've accepted the fact that some may think I'm delusional because I still believe in God. I was recently at an exmormon site, lurking around, and saw almost the same discussions there. It seems to be a very exCult perspective. Although, the Mormons tended to be better educated than we are/were here. I'm including myself in that. I just have seen that those that leave cults generally leave belief as well. And then they all claim they didn't question God because of their organization. It's just interesting to see the EXACT same thing happen with the Mormons.

30

God and the Super Bowl

by Christ Alone in

did anyone notice the frequency that god was mentioned during the super bowl?

i was impressed.

with the rampant atheism here, sometimes it's easy to forget that belief is still very strong.

Christ Alone

I'm still a thoughtful Christian. But I have to say that I do not understand the lure of atheism in the slightest. Having no hope is not appealing. And yes, I know that truth is not about what is appealing. And right now I'm not talking about proof or truth. I'm talking about the reality of a person's life. The reality is that your child could die today and you would never see them again for eternity. If your child has already died, well you are out of luck. No hope ever again for them. They are just dirt. The reality is that could happen to you. WILL happen to you.

I'm not discussing evidence. I'm discussing the reality of your life. It's great to say you've been set free of belief. I don't see the freedom. I see freedom in Jesus Christ, a love for life now, and a knowledge that life will never stop.

I also understand other belief systems that have hope. I'm not talking only about Christianity. I can understand belief outside of Jesus Christ. But atheism just practically sounds depressing to me. Again, I don't see the freedom. I would not be a happy atheist. And I'm just being honest here. There would be a constant fear that an accident could befall my family and that would be it forever. A fear of life once I got up in age to know I was going to die soon and that was it forever. It's just extremely depressing.

It seems that "freedom" exists as long as there is no tragedy. But I can't see someone that lost a 4 year old to a drunk driver thinking that they were truly free because they know that they will never see their child again.

30

God and the Super Bowl

by Christ Alone in

did anyone notice the frequency that god was mentioned during the super bowl?

i was impressed.

with the rampant atheism here, sometimes it's easy to forget that belief is still very strong.

Christ Alone

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked ‘Christian’ said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

I believe it, but where's the proof? Was there such a question that said "Do you believe that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God" on a CENSUS questionnaire?!? Sorry...this is coming from a humanist website biased against Christianity already.

*edit: Sorry, I went to the site and saw that this was a poll from a different company. Religious and Christan don't mean the same thing anyway. But, regardless, I know that Christianity has declined in Britain. Funny how perspective works. Cantleave speaks about people being tired of delusion and leaving Christianity. And yet Christians see atheism as a delusion.